HOW MUCH IS TOO LITTLE? Calculating Treasure in Dungeons



A common problem quickly encountered when designing your own dungeon or stocking a map drawn by another is the optimal amount of treasure to add. A cousin to that problem could be the "treasure" restocking, again, how much do you add? More distantly related might be if a particular module you picked up is going to contain enough treasure to level a party or at least make the risk worth it?

But it is difficult to understand at a glance because of the alphabet treasure tables (one of my loathes because of complexity), variation due to lairs, if the treasure is trapped or unguarded in which case you employ a different treasure formula (one of my favorites because of simplicity), and even variations in gem quality or type. It is also sometimes difficult to understand how rolling magic items changes treasure distribution.

If you have one or two years of DMing experience under your belt, you have a feel treasure amounts, but you might be like me and think, "Shouldn't someone have already calculated all of this out?"

Well the OSR blogosphere provides! An author by the name of Lungfungus who blogs at Melancholies and Mirth wrote a document brought to my attention on bluskey by blark about just this topic.

While the document contains a lot of good advice about dungeon design, I was particularly enamored with the section on dungeon stocking which synthesizes a lot of different methods of stocking into one table AND answers the question of "how much is enough" when it comes to treasure.

Summary of Actual Dungeon Mastering: How to Design Dungeons

First, on average, 1-in-5 dungeon rooms contain treasure

Lungfungus begins by examining a variety of random stocking methods spanning known editions of D&D from TSR and several popular retroclones. When it comes to treasure-containing rooms, from a TSR edition perspective, they occur roughly every ~4-in-20 rooms (BX methods 10-in-36 and AD&D roughly 4-in-20). A lot of retro-clones, being derived from these two editions, conform to the same distribution.

Second, the average value of a TSR treasure room on Level 1 is 586.5gp

Using the various treasure tables from Appendix A of the AD&D DMG, Lungfungus calculates the average amount of treasure a treasure room might contain and arrives at an average value of 586.5 gold pieces. Fantastic! Let's just round it off to ~600gp for ease.


But each treasure room could instead have a 1-in-6 change of being a magic item instead of coin/gem/goods-based treasure. We can also convert 1-in-6 to ~3-in-20 to keep all our rolls on a d20.

Third, 2000xp is the average need to advance a PC from level 1 to 2

Lungfungus uses a very familiar method of calculating the average total XP needed to level up by taking the average XP needed by a single PC to advance from level 1 to level 2 which is 2000xp. So, a party of 6 PCs needs on average 12,000xp in total to advance from level 1 to level 2.


Now there are a couple of additional calculations I am leaving out such a reducing treasure given that some XP is awarded for monsters and adding 50% more treasure than the required amount given that PCs will often overlook hidden treasure or not explore every single room in a given dungeon.


In that regard, it might be better to use "magic-user" instead of "fighter" when calculating the XP need to advance above given that a MU requires 2500xp vs a fighter's 2000xp.

Fourth, the total size of the dungeon can be determined from the number of treasure rooms required for a given party size to advance from level 1 to level 2

Therefore, since the average value of a treasure room is 586.5gp and the total amount of XP needed is 12,000, then a level 1 dungeon will need at least 20.4 treasure rooms. And so, since 1-in-5 rooms are treasure rooms in the average dungeon, we do a little algebra and solve for X to get the total size of the dungeon:


Total dungeon rooms: (1/5) = (20/X) 

Total dungeon rooms: 1X = 100

Total dungeon rooms: X = 100

Finally, the Lungfungus synthesized stocking method

Roll 1d20 per room and consult the table below:

1-12        Empty Rooms 13            Room with a Dynamic Element

14            Room that is Trapped

15            Room containing an Obstacle 16-20     Monster Treasure Containing Rooms: For any given room, there is 4-in-20 chance it contains treasure and a 3-in-20 chance that treasure is a magic item (6-in-20 if it is trapped); treasure value is ~600gp x dungeon level


The final thing that might be important to realize is that PC XP requirements increase linearly, so all you need to do is multiply the above amounts by the dungeon level to have everything scale properly. So the treasure room amount for Level 7 of the dungeon is ~600gp x 7 = 4,200gp. This seems like a lot however to get a fighter from level 7 to level 8 it takes 64,000 additional xp.

WHERE HELL COMES TO PREY: Running Nightwick Abbey 06


Spooky...

SUNDAY SERVICE Wow. I’m behind on these because the last time I checked in was around Session 17 and we are now up to Session 26! I won’t recant everything but in the last couple of sessions:

  • PC carousing resulted in fashionable villagers adopting dungeon gear as the season’s must-have items- price soar to 10x the amount

  • A strange person rides into the village on a shabby horse covered in white power, wearing livery similar to the Sword Brothers;  the rider has bandaged hands and carries a bizarre square sword made of fine wood

  • The PCs descend into the dungeon to free Cunneke’s ancestor, but in this quest they are rebuffed repeatedly; first by having a major fighter killed by some sorta strange plant and then a second time they picked a fight with a cult of the Bloody Baroness, barely survived, and lost the gold skull in the process

  • While licking their wounds, another misplaced carousing roll resulted in the sun turning a pallid grey and the moon blood red and at the same time a distant rumble in the mountain was heard

  • Down again the player went into the Abbey’s maw searching for the way to the second level which they found, but to a different section of the Abbey- one with a garden from which strange herbs were harvested

  • In the subsequent days, the PCs plan a 3rd attempt to free Cunneke’s ancestor, this time suffering a beytrals by a hireling woodsman who was working for the forces of the pit and losing a second hireling  to a fit of madness as they threw themselves into a burning pit where a demon was being summoned

  • In this last delve, the PC did understand the explosion has hearld changes in the Abbey and they found a route down to the second floor closer to Cunneke’s ancestor’s imprisonment before turning back



TENDING TO THE FLOCK

Adding Regional Events To Show the World Moves in the Absence of the Players: With the most recent sessions, I have incorporated yearly, monthly, and weekly events into the campaign structure. For example, the yearly result I’ve rolled has been “volcano”, a failed magical research carousing roll has provided a monthly event, and recently the weekly roll as produced “stranger”. I’ve used the volcanic activity to change the Abbey and the types of monsters in it. I also might change the cult composition as well. Currently, there are two cults in the Abbey, but perhaps a third emerges based on fire and demons from the pit. As for the change in the sun and moon, this has been blamed on magic users and caused Halfdan to sequester himself in his tower, taking the PC Kingsley with him.


Building Out New Factions In Nightwick Village To Provide PC Opportunities for Connection: A puzzling individual (Ambrose) who has drifted into Nightwick Village with bandaged hands and requested the manufacture of a “square sword” from the village blacksmith. Since rolling “stranger” for a weekly event, I’ve had Ambrose joined by another individual with similarly bandaged hands.


The 100-minute Megadungeon Campaign Format Still Serves Well: I’ve started to allow the sessions to run a little longer past the 2-hour mark. I think aiming toward a tight session that pushes action over long deliberation is good! However, I need to make sure to leave room for players to let their characters breathe, the group to discuss the world, and spontaneous opportunities that make games memorable. Being too strict to format can restrict that.


I Gave My Players A Corrected Map Of Rooms Triversed in the Abbey: I enjoy mapping and do it a lot in the Weeknights in Nightwick game I play in. My players in WHCtP, are mapping as well, but I noticed that in recent games their maps had become more a hindrance. So I gave them a corrected one for Session 26. Things ran more smoothly and they were able to move forward on a goal they’ve been working on the past three sessions. Perfect! The more I slept on it, the more I am happy with that decision.


I Started Experimenting with the Underclock: This is a new invention by Arnold K of Goblin Punch. Basically you start a counter at 20 and each round or when the player do something loud or something that takes time, roll  a 1d6 roll and subtract that from the counter. At 0, you have a random encounter. I thought I would give this a shot because Nightwick Abbey’s haunted house vibe seems to be the correct environment to try out something that will ratchet up the tension. So far it's worked out pretty well.

NIGHTWICK ABBEY: The Purple Eater of People Session 106

 


I'm giving a bit shorter report these days for Nightwick in an effort to make them more timely. If these horrid halls of 
Nightwick Abbey call to you, then please join Miranda Elkins' Patreon! (Um, maybe not this time because I forgot to post!)

Blossom (Rogue 6)
Sir Uein (Fighter 6)
Mayfly (Magician 6)
Liminal Space (Changeling 5)
Thekla (Magician 5)
Krupe (Cleric 5)
Pataki (Rogue 1)
Cohrwhnk (Fighter 1)

AT THE MEDUSA'S HEAD...

On the 9th of Uno-December, Cupsday, the party assembled once again at the best bar in Nightwick Village to plot and plan a descent into the worst place near Nightwick Village. The group is joined by a fighter from Volgury (a new player, how exciting!) seeking fame and fortune in the halls of Nightwick. With the new member, the party decides to focus on (1) finding Great King Death and (2) re-mapping Level 3 post-shifts.

...DOWN IN NIGHTWICK...

  • Once again the PCs are met by a strange man when they reach the edge of Nightwick Village, "BEHOLD! Nightwick Abbey!" he shouts hitting a somewhat musical note. Then, he disappears into the treeline. In an effort to show Cohrwhnk around, the party seeks out the graveyard where mysteriously a number of freshly dug graves equal to the party shows up every time they arrive.
  • The players enter the Abbey through the mausoleum entrances and almost get themselves covered in acid were it not for Blossom's keep thieving skills. Now it is not a stuck door, but a wide 10' pool of acid blocking the party.
  • The PCs turn around, head north, but have to pause to cross-reference their map with Sir Uein's. Fortunately, no encounters with the Abbey faithful occur and the party is able to get back on track when the turn east. Mayfly also consults the gold skull to find the location of the cranial caster's long lost spellbook.
  • After some wandering, the party turns north from the "pelvis room" to confront two double doors; as the party starts working on opening the doors,  a pack of beaked ghouls charges into the front rank! The party is surprised!! And the ghouls are hungry!!!
  • Poor Cohrowhnk is shredded by the sharp talons and vicious claws, and then the rest of the front rank collapses to the paralytic and hallucinogenic venom in the ghoul talons! (PC EDIT: We had a surprise round followed by losing initiative- terrible situation...)
  • The remaining party is quick to pull themselves together and form a last line around Mayfly who is able to immolate the pack before the ghouls finish everyone else off.
  • When binding wounds and tending to those in the throws of ghoul venom, the party is approached by cultists in robes covered in purple flame and all with pale visages, the party cuts a deal with this never-before-seen group to live and let live. The cultists withdraw.
  • Once inside the room with the double doors, the party is able to find multiple bags containing silver which maps this delve a successful one! Well...save for the one dead member (PC EDIT: But to be fair dying in your first session is classic Nightwick) 
AT THE MEDUSA'S HEAD...
After a hastily gulping down a drink, the party takes stock: 320xp each and 200 sp gained, well, we've certainly had more PCs die for less.

PRACTICAL MAGIC III: Starting MUs Are Not Feeling The Magic!


A common refrain in old-school games, most often from those new to old-school play, is that 1st level magic-users (MU) suck, don’t feel like masters of the arcane, and are very limited unless you have sleep and/or get to the point of gaining fireball. To those new to the game, the best way to play a 1st level MU is to just wait in the 3rd/4th rank until its time to cast sleep then lean back and look at your phone. Boring.


Regarding what to do after a 1st-level MU has cast their only spell, I have covered that in a previous blog post (and it was featured in KNOCK! #3 woot!).


Continuing that series, I would like to address how a DM can get their MUs off to a better start using options that don’t stray far from BX as a base chassis. So let’s look at how we can layer some decisions on top of a starting MU so the character feels like a proper student of the arcane and not just 2 HP chump waiting to feebly cast their one magic missile then pray they make it to more interesting levels.


Rolling Up A New Magic-User

After throwing 3d6 down the line as Crom intended, the player has ended with average stats but a 13 in INT netting a +1 bonus and +5% XP gain by choosing a magic user. By BX RAW, this PC has a spellbook, a dagger, no armor, and on average, 100-110 gp, plus 2-3 hp. This PC is Elizabeth the Lucky.


First, DM is given leeway to define the spellbook and the mentor 


Out of the box, RAW in BX, the DM may choose which spells a MU character can start with. This advice is also mirrored by Gygax in AD&D when it is commented that MUs, after a successful apprenticeship, are gifted a spellbook from their mentor which includes read magic and 1 spell from an offensive, defensive, and utility 1st-level spell list. 


Here are three great resources for unique spins on these aspects of MUs: 

  • Ben L.’s Six Starting Spellbooks which lists six spell books with 2 first-level and 1 second-level spells in them and includes information on a particular topic

  • ktrey’s d100 - Mercurial Mentors & Weird Wizards which lists a mentor by starting spells.

  • Carcass Crawler #4 & Dolmenwood Crawler contains new grimoires which are easy enough to modify to create “lesser copies"; Dolmenwood PHB contains some different starting spellbook too


Elizabeth the Lucky rolls an “3” on for the starting spellbook giving her a lesser copy of Geometry of Unseen Potencies which includes level 1 spells hold portal, floating disk, and level 2 spell levitate. Plus she is given the read magic (this always makes sense to me). A complete version of the tome is described as:


The work of Daglon the Geometer, mystical master of force and balance, architect of suspended structures. He had the original crafted by confounding Ubaes who constructed books like puzzles and conundrums. Geometry of Unseen Potencies is bound between polished stones taken from the hearts of substantial clouds in Wishery. Although ponderous in appearance, the book weighs almost nothing.


Now for the mentor. Using hold portal as the category, Elizabeth rolls a “5” under the hold portal table on the Mercurial Mentors. She was instructed by:


 Hernil's Flawless Clone and “[You swear] saw them dissolve into a puddle of goo once.” 


So the player’s MU’s mentor is potentially cloned, could be sentient black pudding, and maybe there is a flawed version out there? And what of this spellbook? Is there a way to get a true copy of Geometry of Unseen Potencies? All great questions for the DM to incorporate into world-building.


Second, let the player decide which 1st level spell has been memorized and which 1st level spell has been made into a scroll✤  


The decision on which spell to memorize and which spell to take as a scroll comes down to deciding which spell the player thinks will be immediately useful in the adventure and which spell might be situationally useful and so is good to “bank” in a paper spell slot- the scroll. 


Elizebeth’s player decides that hold portal might help them escape their first dungeon delve while floating disk might be important only when they locate a treasure they can’t carry and so “banks” it in a scroll.


Now the starting MU has potentially two spells to cast instead of the normal starting one spell and we’ve not really deviated from the rules of BX.


Third, let the player decide if they want more information, more hands, or more spells


Old-school MUs are given the most expensive item their class needs, the spellbook, and they can’t wear armor or weld any expensive weapons so how can the money be put to use in a way that is in the form of an impactful decision? How about letting the player decide if they want to gain a:

  • Man-at-Arms (50 gp): A 1d6 hp fighting-type with a spear or axe (1d6 dmg) and leather + shield (AC 13) which might be good for protection and provide the player with a way to stay in the action 

  • Another scroll (100 gp): This can be a copy of any spell currently in their spell book and allows increased casting potential

  • Map of the dungeon (50-150 gp): Could be complete but without room contents, could by 2-3 very specific rooms, or the location of a particular treasure; information variable depending in the amount spent


In keeping with average rolling, Elizabeth’s player gets a “10” on their 3d6 roll for starting money equaling 100 gp. Looking over spells, the player thinks that hold portal might be good for a quick escape and floating disk can transport something large, so a treasure map might be a good option.


Fourth, introduce the concept of scroll production because it provides an immediate beneficial downtime action and sinks for gold


Not groundbreaking but I feel often forgotten or ignored. The Holmes Basic D&D prescription of 100 gp/week/spell level to transcribe is widely adopted in old-school circles. So a 2nd level spell takes 200 gp and 2 weeks to produce. This provides some immediate downtime activities and choices for the MU to make. And it increases the number of spells they can cast in a given adventure beyond what they can cast by spell slots! This might not seem a lot but if a game occurs weekly or bi-weekly, this can allow for an accumulation of 2-4 extra scrolls greatly augmenting the spell caster’s power.


Finally, introduce the (nebulous) concept of magical research


In the BX text, there is a reference to conducting magical research mainly to learn new spells- 1,000gp/spell level and it takes two weeks with a 15% chance of failure. There is an additional note about “other magical research” which opens up a lot of other options for study:

  • Magical marganilia in their spellbooks

  • Componentsto augment a spell’s effects (or magical cooking)

  • Answering in-game questions that might arise- like where a true copy of Geometries is located or how to hurt a particular monster

Starting Changes Summary

BX RAW we have this: 


Magic User 1st level, 3 HP, AC 10, dagger (1d4 dmg), hold portal, 100 gp


However, by layering more interesting starting decision-making choices, we get something like this:


Elizabeth the Lucky (INT 13), mentored by the Flawless Clone of the Mage Hernil, has finally departed the strange tower outside Greywold. The clone let her keep the ruined copy of Geometries she rescued from an errant nest of rat familiars and now she dreams of building cloud castles promised by a complete text. Until then, she recites the basics hold portal to herself and keeps a copy of the floating disk folded inside her hat. The small piles of coins the clone mage haphazardly dropped in her hands were used to buy information on the barrow complex north of the village- the home of a former wizard. Money from that venture could fuel a quest for a true copy of Geometries. Right now Elizabeth is trying to make floating disk last a little longer- so far past remarks have said by casting in the reflection of a silver charger depicting the god Pan, but Elizabeth has no gold for such an object- yet.


Cantrips Are Not The Answer, Just Give Them A Crossbow

Often I find that the cantrips people want are what 5e has given them: consistent damage-dealing spells that come at no magic-expenditure cost. But I don’t like this for four reasons:

  1. Fighters, clerics, dwarves, elves, and thieves already do a decent range of damage 1d6 to 2d6 damage given particular circumstances, so throwing another 1d6 or so damage on top to me is not interesting

  2. Often those cantrip damage-dealing spells also require a to-hit role further making them feel less magical; at least the lowly magic missile auto-hits which can really be clutch in the right moment

  3. A magical 1d6 to 1d8, to-hit source of damage is also similar to starting the worse “fighter” in the party a magical +1 sword that sucks the magic out of true +1 swords (or other magical weapons)

  4. It potentially draws a MU player’s thinking away from lateral strategies to utilize non-damage dealing spells which often are the more powerful and potentially lucrative options

If a player still insists on having something to do, then don’t change the magic just let wizards use a crossbow. Its ranged, does 1d6+ damage, fires every other round, but could be ever ready for a quick first shot– and it feels like a wizardy weapon they would fool around with instead of a bow.


But also as a DM, don’t forget to add magical stuff to your dungeon: scrolls, potions, arcane scrawl only magic users can read, bizarre contraptions or distillation equipment only they can use. Also think about allowing your player to incorporate components taken from dungeon foes in your games allowing a low-level magic augmentation in addition to scrolls.


If you are feeling really generous as a DM, you could say they have scrolls for one of the first and the second-level spell.

ktrey at d4 caltrops has a ton of useful tables that span all sorts of fantasy gaming material

I do, however, agree with the old-school trick of allowing a prepared spell to be burned in a released bolt of magic energy to deal damage, but that is because it comes at a cost